Exclusive: William Kent Krueger On the Art of Literary Suspense

By Clay Stafford

Literary suspense is a term tossed around as a genre, but it’s not really; literary suspense is more of a writing technique. It is an expansive term that goes across genres and, sometimes, no genres at all. It is a style of writing that cares as much for the way a sentence is framed, as it does for plot and character.

There is a sense of anticipation not present in other books, as though each sentence—and not just the last line of each chapter—propels the reader uncontrollably to the next. And it is a style of writing that elevates a book, not within its genre, but above its genre to a place ethereal—should I dare say the arrogant term “literature.” And while many excellent writers and many excellent works come to mind, there is one particular author who bridges that gap for me in the mystery genre: William Kent Krueger. And to be specific, one particular book from the mystery field: Ordinary Grace.

Clay – Kent, I’ve read your Cork O’Connor novels, all first-rate, second-to-none, but it was Ordinary Grace that won you an Edgar Award. Yet, when it was pitched before it was written, it was the novel that no one wanted, the novel you had to write “on spec” on your own. But, it was the novel that put you on the map with the Edgar. It’s the one that resonates with many new readers that I speak with. Tell us about the writing of that novel.

Kent – I hope all writers, at some point in their careers, have the experience of finding the story that feels to them as if they were always meant to write it. That’s how I felt about Ordinary Grace. Yes, it was an idea my publisher was pretty tepid about, but it was a story that spoke to me on such a deep level that I had to write it. The story came to me in a unique way, very organically, as I bent to the work. Honestly, it was the easiest piece of writing I’ve ever done, and this was, I believe, because I was tapping the deep roots of my own experience in creating the story.

"My advice to writers of mysteries, or any writer for that matter, is to remember that a story is not about what happens; it’s really about the people things happen to."

Clay – So many people have been attracted to Ordinary Grace who would not necessarily read the Cork O’Connor novels. These are non-mystery readers. What do you think is the attraction and how can other writers incorporate what you did with that book into their own works?

Kent – Although the story has a solid mystery component, it’s not really a whodunnit. It’s a novel about family, about faith, about the painful way in which wisdom comes to us, things all people understand and can relate to. Ultimately it is, as the title suggests, about the power of grace in its everyday expression as human beings relate to one another, especially in our willingness to forgive and to embrace the brokenness in others and in ourselves. And so it reaches for places in the heart that a typical mystery might not. My advice to writers of mysteries, or any writer for that matter, is to remember that a story is not about what happens; it’s really about the people things happen to.

Even from the first lines of Ordinary Grace and another random Krueger book, which I had a staff member pull at her unguided discretion from the shelf (to ensure I wasn’t stacking the deck), you can almost tell immediately that there is something different about the prose of Ordinary Grace, a different style that does not fall squarely into what one might think is a traditional mystery. Listen:

He woke long before it was necessary, had wakened in this way for weeks, troubled and afraid. —Northwest Angle by William Kent Krueger

All the dying that summer began with the death of a child, a boy with golden hair and thick glasses, killed on the railroad tracks outside New Bremen, Minnesota, sliced into pieces by a thousand tons of steel speeding across the prairie toward South Dakota.

—Ordinary Grace by William Kent Krueger

It is not the length of the sentences that seem to make the difference. It is the imagery, right from the start, that continues poetically throughout the book. Just in the first sentences, one can see a difference.

Clay – What do you think is happening here with this book?

Kent – I wanted this story to feel like reminiscence rather than a simple recounting of what occurred in that fateful summer of 1961. So I knew I had to be careful with the voice. I wanted the story to flow in a kind of reverie, in the way our recall of the past often comes to us. I wanted the language to be both ordinary and at the same time lyrical. When I heard the voice of Frank Drum begin to tell this story, I knew I had it.

As those close to me know, I was a devoted fan of Kent’s and had asked him to be Guest of Honor at Killer Nashville even before I read Ordinary Grace and even before it won an Edgar. But upon the release of Ordinary Grace, suddenly new fans appeared, which—of course—is what all writers want!

But there is just something special about a special book, and sometimes the industry itself does not even know what that is. How do we find that?

Clay – What do you think it takes to transcend your genre, regardless of the genre? Should authors try? Or does it just come? Is it a gamble?

Kent – I’m a firm believer in following your heart. If you’re true to this, to your own vision, I believe you’ll create work that satisfies you artistically. Does that ensure a readership or fame or fortune? Of course not, but it does mean that every day you write, you’ll be living your passion, and what could be better than that? But I also believe that if you’re true to yourself, eventually you’ll discover the writer you were always meant to be and you’ll be writing the stories you were always meant to write, and that’s when the doors will open.

Clay – Was this difference in voice—for the lack of a better term—something that was planned? Or was it organic from you? Did you make a conscious effort to style this book differently from that of your other very popular works? Or did it style itself?

Kent – Because this was such a personal story, and because I wanted to do something very different than I’ve accomplished with my mystery series, I set out to make this book stand out from my others in a unique way. It’s structured very differently from a typical mystery. The message it delivers is not at all typical for the genre. And the language is very different from the kind that a reader might find in most novels, mystery or otherwise. Some of this I knew going in, and some of it I realized during the writing.

J.K. Rowling started the first Harry Potter as expected, in genre. But when she found that sweet spot in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, and then really in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, the Potter books exploded. You can see it in the language, the depth of character, the complexity of the plotting.

Clay – I haven’t read anything from Manitou Canyon yet, but has any of that voice from Ordinary Grace leaked now into your other works? Is this inclusion or absence intentional? Can you make it happen without coming across as forced?

Kent – I hope my writing is fine regardless of the story I tell, but with a straightforward mystery or suspense novel, the structure and language both are very different from Ordinary Grace. The point of view in most of the novels in the Cork O’Connor series is third person, which can never be as intimate as first person, which was the point of view in Ordinary Grace. And I believe you’re right in that trying to force the story to be what Ordinary Grace is would prove disastrous.

So I had to ask myself when looking at Ordinary Grace, is the first sentence example a fluke? I could choose random phrases from Krueger books like I choose Bible reading, open the book, put my finger down, and choose at random. But instead, to be fair, I’ll look at last two lines. (I’m trying to be fair by including two, not one.) Curiously, I look at the last lines from Northwest Angle quoted above:

“A beautiful life,” she replied.

And she kissed him, boundless in her appreciation and her love.

—Northwest Angle by William Kent Krueger

And, to be fair, I had a different staff member pull another Krueger book of his choice off the shelf for me to look at its last two lines:

He smiled beautifully and his lips formed a single word that Cork could not hear but understood absolutely.

Daddy.

—Copper River by William Kent Krueger

Now, if you’ve read both of the above books, you know these are perfect and great ending lines for each story. Loved them both. Nothing wrong with either one. But let’s look at the last line from Ordinary Grace:

The dead are never far from us. They’re in our hearts and on our minds and in the end all that separates us from them is a single breath, one final puff of air.

—Ordinary Grace by William Kent Krueger.

Holy cow! We don’t have an ending line here. We have a deep, 307-page theme (in the trade paperback version handed by my staff member to me) summed up here in these two last lines.

Clay – Is that the difference? Ordinary Grace is a well-plotted book (as are your others) with memorable characters (as definitely are your others), but was it the theme that caused people to notice? And, is it indicative that, sometimes maybe, when a writer sees something the publishing world can’t, and is pushed by something that the writer himself cannot even see, that the story runs deeper than just a story, and becomes a parable of life itself? And then—crazy as it sounds—the publishing industry champions the very risks it has previously rejected?

Kent – You’ve pretty much nailed it. I didn’t have any thematic agenda in mind when I began writing the novel other than wanting to explore more deeply than I had before the question of the spiritual journey in our lives. The story of the Drum family as it developed spoke more intimately about this to readers than any treatise I could have written. I so firmly believe that when, as a writer, you sink your whole self into the imagining of a story, you tap something so much deeper than conscious thought. And when that happens successfully, readers and publishers alike take notice.

Clay – Out of curiosity, have there been any negative reviews of Ordinary Grace from those who are pure mystery readers? Was Ordinary Grace written to include those who are faithful to your O’Connor novels? Was it written to expand your audience? Or did you even have a reader in mind when you wrote it?

Kent – The only review I’ve seen that is in any way negative is the one from Booklist, which, for reasons I can’t fathom, is the one most prominently displayed on the Amazon listing for the book. Go figure. In writing Ordinary Grace, I used a lot of the tools of suspense that I’ve developed as a genre writer. I hoped the story would appeal both to those who enjoy mysteries and also those who wouldn’t touch a mystery with a ten-foot pole.

Clay – You are such a hit speaking to audiences. For writers wanting to find appreciative audiences with which to share themselves and their ideas, how did you go about making yourself available, and how do your frame your presentations so that they are so popular?

Kent – My father was not only a high school English teacher, he was also the speech and drama guy at the school I attended. So I made a lot of speeches and was in beaucoup plays while I was in high school. The take-away for me was the importance of doing two things for an audience—entertain them and enlighten them. That’s what I shoot for. I’ve always thought that if an audience enjoys you, it doesn’t matter what you talk about, they’ll buy your books.

Clay – You wrote a companion novel to follow Ordinary Grace this past year. Then you trashed it. Why? Is it the plot? Or are you being too hard on yourself?

Kent – I spent two years on that manuscript, and in the end, I simply couldn’t corral all the unruly elements of that ambitious effort. I’d been paid a big advance, but I didn’t want to deliver to my publisher or offer to my readers a book that, because it disappointed me, I was sure would disappoint everyone else. So I pulled it. My publisher was incredibly understanding. I still owe them a companion. And I’m at work on that now, a story so much clearer to me and a much, much better follow-up to Ordinary Grace. We’re looking at a publication date in the spring of 2018.

Clay – Ernest Hemingway was an early role model for you. I still chuckle when you spoke at Killer Nashville and said, “F*** Hemingway.” But in Ordinary Grace, I can’t help but feel that Papa might have smiled when you typed “The End” on the very last draft of Ordinary Grace. What do you think?

Kent – My favorite Hemingway work is The Old Man and the Sea. It’s his most mature piece, I think, written by a man coming to terms with so much of his own brokenness. I think he would have found Ordinary Grace a bit too lyrical for his tastes, but I think he would have appreciated the story.

Clay – Kent, I think Papa would have been proud.

---

Clay Stafford is an author / filmmaker (www.ClayStafford.com), founder of Killer Nashville (www.killernashville.com) and publisher of Killer Nashville Magazine (www.killernashvillemagazine.com). In addition to selling over 1.5 million copies of his own books, Stafford’s latest projects are the documentary “One of the Miracles” (www.oneofthemiracles.com) and writing the music CD “XO” with Kathryn Dance / Lincoln Rhymes author Jeffery Deaver (www.jefferdeaverxomusic.com). He is currently writing a film script based on Peter Straub’s “Pork Pie Hat” for American Blackguard Entertainment (www.americanblackguard.com).

Killer Nashville is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program. If you purchase a book from the links on this page, Amazon will give Killer Nashville a small percentage of the total sale.

Exclusive: Lisa Jackson On Writing, Romance, and Giving Back

By Clay Stafford

Nothing could make me happier than seeing Lisa Jackson’s picture on the cover of February’s Killer Nashville Magazine.

I’ve been a fan of Lisa’s for years, but only met her two years ago when she was Killer Nashville’s 2014 Guest of Honor. What a delight she was!

It seems the feeling was mutual because before she left on the night of the Killer Nashville Guest of Honor and Awards Banquet, she said, “What can I do to help? How can I help these writers?”

That moment was incredible.

From that grew the annual Killer Nashville Lisa Jackson Scholarship for deserving writers. What is it? It’s a chance for an all-expense paid trip to Killer Nashville for writers who otherwise could not afford the trek. And, as Lisa wanted, it’s yet another way for Killer Nashville to help transform writers’ dreams.

Clay – Lisa, for those who don’t know your beginnings, did you always know you were going to be a writer?

Lisa – I always loved writing and was an English major in college.

Clay – I’ve found being an English major certainly opened doors in my life. Not!

Lisa – After school, I worked in banking until I had my kids and then my career was babysitting.

Clay – I’m with you.

Lisa – My sister, Nancy Bush suggested we take a stab at writing romance novels. This was the ’80s and she’d seen an article about young mothers making their fortune writing love stories. I laughed and said, “Are you nuts? We can’t do that. We’ve never even read a romance novel. We like suspense, mystery and horror. However, the next day when I was surrounded by a handful of kids under four, I thought, “Why not?”

Clay – I’ve heard of defining moments. I guess applesauce flying across the room is as good as any!

Lisa – Well, I loved reading and writing and The Wolf was at the door. Fortunately, standing right beside him was Opportunity and she was knocking. I pulled out my manual typewriter and by the time Nan had come to pick up her daughter, I’d penned the prologue to Stormy Surrender, which we wrote with another friend. The book was rejected all over New York, but Nan and I were bitten by the writing bug. She sold her first solo effort and I sold a year after that. The moral: Never believe you can’t do something. If you want it badly enough, go for it.

Clay – How many books have you written? Do you even know?

Lisa – I think around 100 but no, I don’t keep count.

Clay – You and your sister Nancy Bush continue to write books together. How does the co-writing play out?

Lisa – We’re very close. Great friends, as well as sisters, and we get along. We like the same things in stories so we plot together, work out the kinks and characters, then write a synopsis which goes through several transformations as we hand it back and forth. Eventually, we write the story, first one, then the other reads over those chapters, changes and goes onto her chapters, then back to author one. Depending upon our schedules, one sister may write more of a book than the other, but it all works out. Only once did we get into a significant argument. We were both tired and in a hotel at a conference. Instead of fighting, we closed the laptop and went out for a drink.

Clay – Great way to resolve a conflict. We provide bar space at Killer Nashville just for that very reason. You started in romance, but I would venture to say that when people – at least in my circles – think of you, they think of romantic suspense. When you write, what elements do you introduce to make the shift from romance to romantic suspense?

Lisa – For me it’s pretty easy. As I said, I’m a suspense/mystery reader by nature. The first novels I wrote for Silhouette Books were difficult because I had to take the suspense out and fight my natural urges, but I learned about romance. The way I see it in romantic suspense is that the romance heightens the danger/suspense and the suspense heightens the romance; it’s as if each emotion is super-charged because of the other.

"People told me this, of course, and they still do and I still don’t listen, but I try. Also, it’s important to finish a book. Not just start one, or come up with an idea. Write the whole damned thing."

Clay – I can see that. After writing so many books, does it get easier or harder to crank out new novels?

Lisa – It’s never easy. Some books are much easier to write than others though I really believe, for me, it’s the outside influences that make a project hard. If I have family issues, or health issues or whatever, the story seems to knot up. I don’t think writing is ever easy.

Clay – That’s a good point. I think that’s where the hobbyist and the professional draw the line. It’s easy to write, but not always easy to write well. Just curious, after years of turning out bestsellers, what is the one book that has meant the most to you?

Lisa – Oh, that’s an impossible question.

Clay – You have to have one.

Lisa – There are so many.

Clay – Something that meant something to you personally.

Lisa – I loved writing Shiver and I used my mother’s birthday in it, and then in Close To Home, I brought back Bonzi, our beloved pitbull. Starting the Montana series with Left To Die was a thrill as I worked with two female cops for the first time and Cold Blooded, the second book in the New Orleans series was something I’d been thinking about for a long time. So . . .

Clay – As you have lived the dream over the years, what would you tell a beginning writer that you wish someone had told you when you were starting out?

Lisa – Don’t stress out. Find a balance in life.

Clay – Take time for a little meditation. Go with the flow.

Lisa – People told me this, of course, and they still do and I still don’t listen, but I try. Also, it’s important to finish a book. Not just start one, or come up with an idea. Write the whole damned thing.

Clay – You make me smile. Fatal Burn and Revenge are coming out this month. What can you tell us about those books and what about each is important to you?

Lisa – Both books are being republished. Fatal Burn was a bestseller when it was first published and hit the #1 slot on the New York Times, so that’s special to me. It’s being republished now along with Deep Freeze as they are linked to my latest hardback, After She’s Gone. As for Revenge, it’s actually three books in one, novels I wrote years ago and were very popular at the time, so it’s nice to see them repackaged into a romantic suspense format.

"It’s important, no matter who you are, to help others who are in need. Animals, children, victims of abuse. If each person gave a little, what a better place this world would be."

Clay – Always great to keep those works in print. You’ve chosen to get involved with numerous charitable causes. What is your inspiration to give back?

Lisa – I believe I’ve always been blessed and there is so much suffering in the world. It’s important, no matter who you are, to help others who are in need. Animals, children, victims of abuse. If each person gave a little, what a better place this world would be. I try never to take my good fortune for granted.

Clay – And it shows and comes through everything you do. One of your charities is the Killer Nashville Lisa Jackson Scholarship. Can you share with us your goals for the scholarship?

Lisa – Well, first off, I love the Killer Nashville Conference, as you know and I like to encourage other authors as best I can in ways I enjoy. I was broke a few times in my life. Very broke. I was also a single mother. I could never have afforded going away to a conference. This is my way of helping a would-be writer.

Clay – And this is where you, Persistent Reader, can take action. If you have the dream to be a writer, like Lisa and her sister Nancy, take the first step.

You can see from Lisa’s story where it leads.

From humble beginnings with no contacts, things happen when you move forward. Don’t stress out. Finish writing the book. And come connect with us at Killer Nashville.

We’ll connect you to agents, editors, and other writers and resources to make your dreams come true.

This is the year to do it.

Money isn’t an object; we just want your passion.

Get more information on the Killer Nashville Lisa Jackson Scholarship. And while you’re at it, check out the Killer Nashville Jimmy Loftin Memorial Scholarship opportunities here as well. You’re welcome to apply to both.

I look forward to seeing everyone at this year’s Killer Nashville! And thanks Lisa, for a wonderful chat.

---

Clay Stafford is an author / filmmaker (www.ClayStafford.com), founder of Killer Nashville (www.killernashville.com) and publisher of Killer Nashville Magazine (www.killernashvillemagazine.com). In addition to selling over 1.5 million copies of his own books, Stafford’s latest projects are the documentary “One of the Miracles” (www.oneofthemiracles.com) and writing the music CD “XO” with Kathryn Dance / Lincoln Rhymes author Jeffery Deaver (www.jefferdeaverxomusic.com). He is currently writing a film script based on Peter Straub’s “Pork Pie Hat” for American Blackguard Entertainment (www.americanblackguard.com).

Killer Nashville is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program. If you purchase a book from the links on this page, Amazon will give Killer Nashville a small percentage of the total sale.

Donald Bain and Renée Paley-Bain Sit Down for an Exclusive Interview with Killer Nashville

By Clay Stafford

On January 8, 2016, a few weeks after conducting this interview (but the day ironically that this issue of Killer Nashville Magazine posted), Renée Paley-Bain passed away unexpectedly from a wrenching three-week battle against Waldenstrom’s macroglobulinemia, a rare blood cancer she has lived with for the past 18 years. Our condolences go to her husband Don and their families. God bless them all. We have truly lost an amazing friend. Here's to incredible memories. We are better people for having known her.

Killer Nashville 2015 was on Halloween this year. During that time, I had the wonderful opportunity to sit down in Nashville with Donald Bain and his talented wife and writing partner Renée Paley-Bain for one of the strangest and most delicious hamburgers we’ve ever had (burgers were topped with an over-easy egg and onions caramelized in Jack Daniel’s whisky). Like the meal, every conversation I have with the Bains is an intellectual and entertaining morsel for the spiritual palette.

I like to delve into the minds of writers, and that’s what makes Don and Renée the ideal choice for our December feature article: they are incredibly transparent.

Every time I read a Donald Bain book—be it fiction or nonfiction—I am in awe. The stories tend to be puzzles and whodunits, but that’s not what pulls me in. It is the craft that, as a writer, I see going on behind the words. And what is on the page is not accidental but a credit to the development of the craftsman and the incredible mental brilliance of the man behind them.

This past year has been a busy one for the Bains. They released three books: Internship in Murder (#28 in the “Margaret Truman’s Capital Crime” series), Killer in the Kitchen (#43) and The Ghost and Mrs. Fletcher (#44) in the “Murder, She Wrote” series “co-authored” with fictional character Jessica Fletcher (in by-line only, of course).

For those not familiar, the “Capital Crimes” series takes place in Washington, D.C. and was a collaboration between Don and Margaret Truman, the daughter of President Harry S. Truman. After Ms. Truman’s death, Don carried on the series with the blessings of her family.

And how could you not know what the “Murder, She Wrote” series is about? I had the good fortune of working on that television series as a young man at Universal Studios, and so it was my good fortune, years later, to befriend Donald Bain, the force behind the series of books.

My conversation with both Don and Renée could (and previous ones have) gone on for hours. Two better conversationalists you will never find. I’ve read all three of their books this year, but for the sake of brevity for this interview I’m sticking to the last book of theirs I read (The Ghost and Mrs. Fletcher). But our conversation won’t be limited just to that book. As for as my reviews of the three books, there is too much to list here, but my overall summation would be: “Donald Bain does it again. Familiar characters and twists-and-turns make any Bain book a must-read for mystery enthusiasts.”

To give you a little background before we begin, The Ghost and Mrs. Fletcher is one of my favorites in the Murder, She Wrote books. Set in Cabot Cove, Maine, Jessica visits a friend in the hospital. He thinks he is dying. His doctor does not. Then he dies. It’s up to Jessica to put it together and solve the crime—not saying more because it will give away the plot. When the deceased’s house goes up for sale, unusual sightings give way to the rumor that there is a ghost. Of course, Jessica doesn’t believe in such drivel…or does she?

Although I’ve known both Don and Renée for several years, I learned things here I didn’t know before. For example, I’ve always thought Don was a meticulous outliner (one would assume because of the meticulous stories he writes), but that’s not true at all.

So get ready for some surprises as we hunker down here with Don and Renée Bain.

Clay – “Don, much of your history is contained in the book Murder, He Wrote—your more-than-excellent, and very funny, autobiography—but briefly can you tell our readers who have not read that book how you became a professional writer?”

Donald – “Like many things in life I backed into becoming a writer. After graduating from Purdue University and putting in three years in the Air Force, I had a young family to support. I sold children’s shoes a few nights a week, and worked full-time selling business machines door-to-door. I learned from those jobs that I was a lousy salesman. My cousin and best friend Jack Pearl, who wrote more than 100 books, knew I needed money and started me writing articles for Magazine Management, which published “men’s adventure magazines.” Jack then introduced me to an editor at Simon & Schuster, Ed Brown, who signed me up to rewrite the history of stock car racing. It paid a flat $1,000 fee, a nice payday. Later I was working as a PR exec for American Airlines when Ed Brown called. He had two Eastern Airlines stewardesses who wanted to write a humorous tell-all book about their careers. I met them and wrote Coffee, Tea or Me? which, along with its three sequels, went on to sell more than 5-million copies worldwide and became a made-for-TV movie. I suppose you could say that I became the world’s oldest, tallest, bearded stewardess. With the money from that project I was able to leave the airline and write full-time.”

Clay – “How many books have you written in total?”

Donald – “At last count I’d written 124 books, most of them ghostwritten for others.”

Clay – “Renée, how many of these books have you written (credited and uncredited) with Don?”

Renée – “I’ve been working with Don on the ‘Murder, She Wrote’ series for about 20 years, starting out editing them but eventually co-authoring the novels. Lately I’ve been doing most of the writing with Don editing. But I’d been writing longer than that. As VP of public relations for leading trade associations in the advertising field, I’d written hundreds of articles, speeches, and position papers, so my writing muscles got plenty of exercise.”

Clay – “Don, you mention that Coffee, Tea, or Me? allowed you to quit working at American Airlines and become a full-time writer? Do you think that is a realistic expectation for first-time novelists today?”

Donald – “No, not at all, Clay. There are many good writers whose egos won’t allow them to consider ghostwriting a book on which their names don’t appear. My philosophy was ‘say no to nothing’, an attitude that held me in good stead. My name doesn’t appear on any of the four Coffee, Tea or Me? books, although I did sneakily dedicate each one to me. As a professional writer it was my obligation to not publically take credit for them, and it was 20 years before I called the publisher and asked permission.”

Clay – “I find it amazing that out of all the books you’ve written, only one has been written on spec, meaning you didn’t have a contract for publication on it. Can you explain that for us?”

Donald – “I’ve been too busy over the course of my career writing books under contract to take time to write on spec. But I started a novel of my own in 2003, 50 years into my writing career, worked on it in bits and pieces, finished it in 2013, and saw it published in 2014. Lights Out! is based upon the great blackout of 2003 that sent the eastern seaboard into days of darkness. Writing it was a pleasant departure from ghostwriting—no deadline and no collaborator to appease. My agent, Bob Diforio, sold it immediately to Severn House and it’s done very nicely in the marketplace.”

Clay – “How did you get the ‘Murder, She Wrote’ and ‘Margaret Truman’ writing assignments?”

Donald – “I’d been introduced to Margaret Truman in the early 1980s. She’d collaborated on a Washington-based novel that had been published, but the writer she’d worked with wasn’t available to work on a second book. We got along wonderfully, and I collaborated with her on Murder on Capitol Hill, which was published in 1981. We became good friends and worked together on another 23 D.C.-based mysteries/thrillers. Since her death in 2008, I’ve continued the series in conjunction with her estate. The most recent book written since Margaret’s passing is Internship in Murder. Deadly Medicine will be out next year, and I’m finishing up Allied in Danger as we speak. The books now carry my byline.”

Clay – “How about ‘Murder, She Wrote’? How did you get that series?”

Donald – “I was asked to write the first novel based upon the TV show Murder, She Wrote in 1988 and have been writing the novels ever since in collaboration with my wife Renée. We’ve just delivered the 46th novel in the series, and remarkably they’re all still in print.”

Clay – “That is remarkable.”

Renée – “It’s impressive that only one writer has been involved in this media tie-in series.”

Clay – “Well, two. You and Don are a team on this one! How does it normally work?”

Renée – “Usually a series of writers will be hired to sustain a long-standing series based upon another medium. Don and I are privileged to continue writing novels based upon this iconic television show, and we feel as though the fictional character Jessica Fletcher, brought to life on the screen by the wonderful Angela Lansbury, has become a close friend in a sense. Of course, I was younger than Jessica Fletcher when Don started writing the books, and now I’m older than Jessica Fletcher. Real life isn’t fair.”

Clay – “But as Don has pointed out, there are many hidden and serendipitous surprises. For beginning writers, do you think they should concentrate more on developing a series or a standalone?”

Renée – “Neither! What they should concentrate on is becoming the best writer they can be. I’ve come to learn a lot about the publishing world and making a living in it through my involvement with the “Murder, She Wrote” series. We attend numerous conferences including Killer Nashville and come in contact with a wide variety of writers trying to forge a full-time writing career. The key, as Don mentioned earlier, is attitude, the willingness to take on a variety of writing assignments, learning from each one, and being open to new possibilities. As the author Kingsley Amis, who ghosted for Ian Fleming, once said, “Any proper writer ought to be able to write anything from an Easter Day sermon to a sheep-dip handout.” We don’t have too many calls for a sermon or a sheep-dip handout, but his point is well-taken. Writers have to be flexible and willing to try new things. That’s how you sharpen your skills.”

Clay – “Don, you’ve published 28 books in the ‘Capital Crime’ series, 46 books in the ‘Murder, She Wrote’ series, and yet you and Renée continue to prolifically turn out books. How many books do you and Renée release per year?”

Donald – “The year 2015 has been an especially tough one for us. Through a combination of missteps we were contractually committed to deliver three ‘Murder, She Wrote’ books instead of the usual two. On top of that I had the next novel in the ‘Truman Capital Crimes’ series to write.”

Renée – “We’ve pledged to never let that happen again. I feel as if I’ve been chained to the computer all year.”

Clay – “With all of these books, do you find it harder and harder to come up with new plots? Or do they continue to flow?”

Renée – “Every novel begins with the ‘what if?’ question. We read multiple newspapers and magazines each day, and many of our plot ideas come directly from those pages. We’re also very place oriented, and try to come up with provocative destinations and to have Jessica Fletcher travel to them and solve a murder. We generally set every third book in Cabot Cove, although that isn’t a hard-and-fast rule. Each book usually stems from a single, overarching story idea, which propels the plot forward. There really is never a lack of story ideas to play with. All you have to do is look around at the world we live in.”

Donald – “With the ‘Margaret Truman Capital Crimes’ series, I operate from the standpoint that there is absolutely nothing that I can make up that is far-fetched when it come to Washington, D.C. and the political climate there.”

Clay – “Point well-taken. Now that we are two decades into this writing partnership, how did the two of you begin working together?”

Donald – “Having married a writer made it inevitable that we would one day also become collaborators.”

Renée – “We both love a good story.”

Donald – “She has a devious plot sense.”

Renée – “Thank you.”

Clay – “Yep, she is the tricky one. Don, if you remember, she’s the one who connected us together to begin with. As you two write as a team, are there creative differences and how do you resolve those?”

Renée – “We’ve always been able to resolve creative differences. I suppose that the fact that we’re still married testifies to that. Basically, the one doing the actual writing sets the pace and tone, with the other playing the role of eagle-eyed editor. But when push comes to shove, it’s the book that counts, not our individual egos.”

Donald – “I remember when I wrote one of the ‘Margaret Truman’ novels and gave it to Renée to read and edit. She disliked one line I’d written and said it was ‘clunky’. I got my back up, defended the line, and it stayed in the manuscript. The first review of the book, while generally favorable, did cite that line as an example of ‘occasionally clunky writing’.”

Clay – “That’s funny you should say that. Jacqueline (my wife) is my first reader. Early in our relationship, I once left a short story for her to read. The next morning, with delight, I asked her what she thought. She told me, ‘It’s not your best work.’ I bristled and asked her what I should do to make it better. She pointed to the kitchen trashcan. And the truth was—and is—she was exactly right. I read the story a year later and it wasn’t even worth the recycling I gave it. The moral being: trust your editor…even if she is your wife. Is it difficult with both of you writing concurrently to maintain the voice of Jessica Fletcher?”

Donald – “We’ve both gotten down the Jessica Fletcher character and seem to seamlessly capture that voice no matter who is doing the writing. Of course, we watch videos of the TV episodes from time to time to ensure that we haven’t strayed. The best compliment we can receive from a reader is that Jessica sounds the same on the page as she does on TV.”

Renée – “We both want to sound like Angela Lansbury playing Jessica Fletcher. Since we have the advantage of writing in first person that smoothes the process.”

Clay – “Speaking of, what is your usual writing process?”

Renée – “It depends entirely on what each of us is doing on a given day. Don is often writing the latest ‘Margaret Truman Capital Crimes’ novel, which means that I do the original writing that day on ‘Murder, She Wrote’. On those days, Don edits what I’ve written. Other days, Don takes on the writing and I function as editor. There are some days, usually when the deadline is approaching, that we’re both writing scenes after having conferred on what they are and how they fit into the overall storyline.”

Clay – “What computer programs do you use to write and map your books?”

Donald – “We work on computers using Word, and pass each day’s writing back-and-forth on thumb drives. When we aren’t dealing with research in-hand from trips or interviews, we use the Internet a great deal. Renée is much more computer-savvy than I am; she handles all the blogging, keeping the website up-to-date (most of the time), and utilizes and refines photos for when I am being interviewed.”

Clay – “Do you have a daily quota of words or pages, or length of time that you write each day?”

Donald – “I used to be a morning writer, having my ten-page-a-day target met by one o’clock in the afternoon. But I get a later start these days after a leisurely morning of reading, catching up on email, and running errands. That schedule suits Renée fine; she gets started writing even later in the day. While I used to shoot for 10 pages a day, I’m content these days with fewer pages. What’s important to me is that something gets written every day, seven days a week when we’re under a deadline. Even if a day’s output isn’t very good when read in the light of the following day, it can serve as a blueprint for the rewriting. I’m a great believer in ‘all good writing is rewriting’. Too many writers strive for perfection in that first draft. As a result they never get around to finishing a book. Write every day, good or bad. I’d rather have badly written pages to improve than stare at a blank screen.”

Clay – “Do you get approval of each book from your agent/publisher before you write it? And, if so, how much of the story do you give him/her?”

Renée – “We have to submit to our publisher and to Universal in Los Angeles (which owns the ‘Murder, She Wrote’ franchise) a synopsis of the storyline for the next novel we wish to write. We also run it past our agent, Bob Diforio, whose long and successful career in publishing gives him a unique perspective. Of course, once the writing commences, that brief synopsis begins to fall apart as the story and characters take over. But it serves as a blueprint that keeps us honest as we manipulate the action and characters. I suppose we’re basically “pantsers”—writing by the seat of our pants while trying not to stray too far afield.”

Clay – “Throughout your latest book, Murder, She Wrote: The Ghost and Mrs. Fletcher, each chapter reveals new information about each character or the plot (or subplots). Are each of those revelations intentionally mapped out in the outline?”

Donald – “No. Well, some are, but they tend to develop as the writing goes forward.”

Clay – “Instead of straight description, you have an enviable way of working the description into the dialogue. Yours is the ultimate ‘show (or hear), don’t tell’. Has this always been easy for you? Or is this something you have cultivated as a part of your craft? An example would be someone talking about selling first edition books rather than describing the shop as one that sells first edition books.”

Donald – “That’s a real compliment, Clay. I suppose that whatever technique we use is the result of having written so much, and learning the craft as we go. I’ve learned something about the craft of writing from everything I’ve ever written, including a couple of ‘collaborations’ that I’d just as soon forget about. I’ve also been fortunate to have had a number of terrific editors whose work on the manuscripts served not only to make the books better, they functioned as teachers, too. Another favorite saying of mine is, ‘If I had more time, I would have written less.’ You develop an innate sense of when you’re ‘telling’ rather than ‘showing’, and there’s no greater enjoyment for me than fine-tuning a manuscript in search of all those unnecessary words, ‘info-dumps’, and otherwise useless use of space on the page.”

Clay – “To what do you attribute—other than the grand writing of Don and Renée Bain—the great affinity of readers to the ‘Murder, She Wrote’ Jessica Fletcher franchise? Every single one of the books is still in print!”

Renée – “It all starts with Dame Angela Lansbury. She created Jessica Fletcher and imbued her with so many attractive and appealing traits that TV viewers, and the readers of the novels, relate to. Although every book has a murder or two in it, they’re ‘gentle’ books in the sense that we avoid graphic violence, four-letter words, and sexual situations. We receive hundreds of emails from readers who say how much they appreciate that approach. We also receive emails from parents who kick-start their teenage sons and daughters onto the reading habit using the ‘Murder, She Wrote’ novels. Of course, we like to think that the quality of the writing helps engender this loyalty—and our readers are certainly that—loyal!”

Clay – “You’ve taught writing courses all over the world, including onboard the Queen Elizabeth 2 (popularly known as the QE2). What are your writing courses like? How basic or advanced are they?”

Donald – “It’s probably a misstatement that I ‘teach’ writing, at least not the nuts-and-bolts of the writing craft. The lectures I gave aboard the QE2 for six consecutive years focused more on attitude towards becoming a writer, using my own experiences as examples. There are those who are able to teach writing as a craft, but I’m not one of them, and it would be presumptuous of me to try it. While I’ve absorbed the craft of writing over the many years of my career, I practice it without thinking much about it. But I’ve sat in on classes in which writing is taught and I have learned something each time. As for lecturing on the QE2, I was also expected to entertain, which dictated my approach.”

Clay – “Writers hear a lot about ‘theme’. To writers who have written as much as you both have, is ‘theme’ even on the radar? Other than Jessica’s voice, is your ‘writers’ voice’ even something you think about?”

Renée – “It really isn’t. Aside from sharing a familiarity with Jessica Fletcher’s voice as established by Angela Lansbury, Don and I do have somewhat different writing ‘voices’. I’m not sure that I could explain the difference, but when we’re editing each other’s work those differences become evident. But they’re not so different that we can’t easily meld them into a single voice, It’s something we respect and pay attention to every day.”

Clay – “Don, your writing is venturing onto the stage, as well! Can you tell us about The Lost Blonde?”

Donald – “I was close friends with the actress Veronica Lake during her post-Hollywood days in New York, and wrote her autobiography with her. A marvelous filmmaker and writer in London, Ian Beaumont, contacted me and suggested that we collaborate on a screenplay based upon Veronica’s NYC years. He came to New York and we went to work. When it was finished, we came to a painful conclusion: it didn’t work as a film. But then I suggested that it would make a wonderful play, and we rewrote it for performance on the stage. Right now it’s making the rounds of leading theatrical companies around the country, and we have our collective fingers crossed. Writing for the stage is alien to both Ian and me, so it’s been a true learning experience. Stay tuned!”

Clay – “Don, Renée is not the only one you’ve written with. You’ve also written with your daughter Laurie! Did she get the writing bug from you?”

Donald – “Laurie is a very talented writer whose articles in such areas as travel and lifestyles have appeared in myriad publications. She worked with me on a few of the earlier ‘Murder, She Wrote’ novels and added a nice dimension to them. If she got the writing bug from me, I’m not sure whether she’ll thank or curse me. It can be a tough way to make a living. She has a wonderful way of turning a phrase, something I admire greatly.”

Clay – “When I read about the book clutter in Cliff Cooper’s house in The Ghost and Mrs. Fletcher, I can’t help but think you used my house as a research destination. Is your house cluttered with books (like mine), or are you more like your character Eve Simpson (who knows how to shovel them out once read)?”

Renée – “Sometimes I think that we’re drowning in books, and we’re constantly loading boxes with them for our local library’s book sales. We both find it hard to get in much reading for pleasure while writing books. I recently suggested to Don that when we turn in the latest Murder, She Wrote, tentative title Hook, Line & Murder, we get away for a week and do nothing but catch up on our reading. I have a stack of novels to get to, and Don has an equally tall stack of books in a variety of genres. But he has the latest ‘Truman’ novel to finish and…oh, well.”

Clay – “In The Ghost and Mrs. Fletcher, is Arianna Olynski’s physical self patterned after Marge Simpson? She’s the only one I can think of who fits the description. And, if so, when in the world does the Bain family watch The Simpsons?”

Renée – “Ha! We hoped you’d think of Marge. That’s exactly who we had in mind. We don’t actually watch The Simpsons, but when a show is as popular as that one, the characters become known all the same. The only time I regret not watching the show is when the name of their grocer is the answer to a clue in our crossword puzzle.”

Clay – “Do you believe in ghosts? You’ve written several involving them, including ‘The Hunt for Skippy Walker’ in Killer Nashville’s new anthology Killer Nashville Noir: Cold-Blooded. I thought I knew where Jessica Fletcher stood until the very end of The Ghost and Mrs. Fletcher. And then, Jessica did what Jessica does best: diplomatically and intellectually raises an eyebrow that there may be more to something than what we first see.”

Donald – “Renée and I debated the ending of The Ghost and Mrs. Fletcher and agreed that while Jessica probably doesn’t intellectually believe in ghosts, one of her endearing traits is her open-mindedness to things she might not necessarily accept.”

Renée – “This is the fourth book, we think (we lose track every so often), in which we’ve injected a ghost into the story. The very first book in the series, Gin and Daggers, features an ‘apparition’. Trick or Treachery has what we hope is a shiver-inducing ending. And how can you use a location like Savannah (A Slaying in Savannahand in ‘The Hunt for Skippy Walker’) and not reference that city’s many ghost stories? Like Jessica, neither Don nor I believe in ghosts…but maybe we’re wrong.”

Clay – “Don and Renée, I hate to end the conversation because I know this could continue on way into the night.”

Donald – “This was a delightful conversation, Clay, and we thank you for the chance to talk about writing and our approach to it. Killer Nashville is, and will always be one of our favorite writers’ conferences. Thanks to you and your excellent staff, hundreds of writers have come away with renewed confidence in their writing careers, and some solid information to help them grow.”

Clay – “And there is much here in this conversation, as well. I’m honored to get to chat with you guys and get a glimpse behind the curtain.”

---

Clay Stafford is an author / filmmaker (www.ClayStafford.com), founder of Killer Nashville (www.killernashville.com) and publisher of Killer Nashville Magazine (www.killernashvillemagazine.com). In addition to selling over 1.5 million copies of his own books, Stafford’s latest projects are the documentary “One of the Miracles” (www.oneofthemiracles.com) and writing the music CD “XO” with Kathryn Dance / Lincoln Rhymes author Jeffery Deaver (www.jefferdeaverxomusic.com). He is currently writing a film script based on Peter Straub’s “Pork Pie Hat” for American Blackguard Entertainment (www.americanblackguard.com).

Killer Nashville is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program. If you purchase a book from the links on this page, Amazon will give Killer Nashville a small percentage of the total sale.